It’s hard to believe that in Australia you could wake up one day and find out that your home, your land, your town has been given away.

It’s especially difficult to believe that that could happen being given away to an Aboriginal corporation given that Australia said no to the voice. But that is exactly what’s happened to the town of Toobeah. And Michael Afford from the Toobeah Hotel joins me now to break it down. Michael, welcome. This is an extraordinary story.

[From video]

Thanks to for having us on. Yeah, it’s a precedent setting. It’s the first time this has happened before. It’s massive. [End video]

And it has the potential to affect absolutely everybody because you’ve made some great points. You made some great videos. I encourage people to find your page. I’ll put a link to that in the description of this video. But it’s one of these situations that you sit there and go, how is this even possible in a civilized country like Australia where we have a legal system, we have ownership of our assets, or at least uh so we think. But worse than it happening, it’s actually been done flying in the face of the result of the voice. And it was done in secret. This is literally something where any of us could wake up at any point in time and discover that this has been done to us. Let’s rewind the clock a little bit. There are many people that have no idea what’s going on in your little tiny town of Toobeah. Bring us up to speed with how all of this started.

[From video]

Well, yeah, Toobeah is like a little town. It’s got 30 people in it. We got no sewage, no drinking water, no park. We got nothing. We only got the internet in uh with Elon Musk really anything effective and we got mobile phone service in 2014. So we’ve just joined the world and this is the first thing they’ve given us is to in secret give our town away. So we woke up one morning to find that the Goondiwindi Regional Council had supported a resolution like passed a resolution supporting the transfer of 95% of our township to the big Aboriginal corporation. So they gave away our creek which has our only body of water in it which is a man-made pump hole. There’s a river weird up up upstream there that pushes water into this creek to fill that for the community. So the people have you know enjoyed that and it’s been a part of our life ever since. So that was a significant thing for us to go okay well I don’t think this is any about reconciliation. These guys are here for payback and that’s exactly what it is.

So, the pathway to treaty you might remember was a thing in Queensland. Basically the treaty concept. Um probably everyone knows that but Kevin Rudd every single thing the voice there’s miles and like layers and layers of stuff that they’ve done over time to get to to that point. So, Toobeah is actually the land back component of that. So below the tropic of Capricorn and Queensland out of Aboriginal communities and ALA transfer like this has never happened. So, what we faced was you had both sides of politics labor and liberals in Queensland both supported the pathway to treaty unanimously. Now, we’re in an unusual situation because our mayor was also the president of the Queensland. So, that really put us in a a bit of a spot of bother. So, going forward, we had the voice referendum. 85% of our community voted no. That’s the biggest in the country. So, 3 months later, they did this. They they gave us away. And yeah, obviously the gun was loaded. It was just a matter of the the voice getting up was wasn’t, you know, was never in question. Of course, it was going to get up. They painted it on planes. They did everything they could to force us to feel like if you didn’t vote yes, you’d be a racist. Well, 70% of Queensland voted no. And then you still went ahead with this.

So, what where we are now with it is just amazing. Like the local member James Lister, uh he’s wrote a wrote a statement there which basically says the state government lied to the Gundy Regional Council about it all. So, that shows you how strong this is. The whole foundation of everything’s built on lies and the only way they were ever going to get this through was lying. And the cover up’s been insane. Like the Goondiwindi Regional Council spent nearly a quarter of a million dollars fighting fighting what? Well, I think they’re fighting me, but you know, fighting Australia to make this precedent go through to now be at a point where it’s like everything’s based off a lie.

So, we made every single complaint you could to every single um relative entity. you know, right through the ombbitsman’s, right through the lot. So now, every single one of these complaints that’s been dismissed is going to have to come back and be looked at. Every single politician we got on note, which is everyone in Queensland, we spoke to them and we have them on note on record with, you know, not supporting us. They had the information. They all had the same information this guy had to write this letter. And it’s really disgusting. And it shows you how weak and how ugly and how useless this concept is. And it’s it’s going to fall. It’s just a matter of time. [End video]

So, Michael, we need to dive into some of the details here because you you said the whole thing’s built on lies. I would say that it’s actually built on lies that are then also built on on another layer of lies. I want to touch on a couple of things and I thank you for doing excellent work in communicating this. Um you weren’t aware that this happened until obviously you woke up but actually the process started back in 2009 was done in complete secrecy but with the knowledge of the Goondiwindi Shire Council and the Goondiwindi Shire Council if I understand correctly have claimed that the town has been given away essentially with consent. This has been a voluntary process but it’s been done without your knowledge.

[From video]

Yeah, it’s amazing. They they’ve honestly the people that we’re dealing with are absolutely useless in every regard. They’ve done this is the worst job they could have done. They thought they were just going to trade on a couple of big names and get away with it and they’d silence a town of 30. All they did was wake up a nation. It it’s absolute stupidity how they thought they could pull this on. Now, a consent determination is what we’re talking about. So, our council did a consent determination with the big which started in 2009 and you know culminated in 2016. The big corporation have had about eight cracks at native title. Everyone’s failed except this one. Like this. Yeah. Every time the judges report scathing. They’re wasting money. They’re taking the piss and they’re trying to, you know, manipulate the system for financial benefit.

We’re in suburbia essentially as opposed to an Aboriginal community. And what they’re going to try and do is turn every shire or local government area into an Aboriginal community. So we had our local council the other day refer to our cultural center as the big and bull Goondiwindi cultural center. It’s like these people say on their website they come from Stradbroke island. They say that on their website. They’re not even trying to hide where they come from. Their connection to our townships from 1920 and 1964. That’s stated that’s actually stated there. The town was created in 196. So the trustee period of this land their story is within that. You’ve said, they’ve said right let’s give this the best thing we can do with this land is give it to five families that said they lived here in 1920 and 1964.

So there’s so many things of native title that are being buggered up with the continuous connection to country heaps of things. They bought a house here in 2009 big people and sold it after the termination 2016. So it shows you what they’re doing. They’re gaming the system and a native title. Everything bad and evil about it spreads from Stradbroke Island and the Brisbane area and it goes out across the entire country. Marbo Wick, you name it, we’ll test it. And that’s what they’re doing here. Toobeah is the precedent. Every single town in this country wants to take note on what’s happening here because if you beat this here, you will not fight this in your town. We’ll take the fight for you. We’ll take the pain and we’ll take the suffering and we’ll get a win here. [End video]

Well, it it it does get more and more extraordinary the deeper that you dig. It was done in secret. It’s was called a consent notice when the town that had supposedly uh consented was actually completely unaware that it was even happening. But there are also some eye watering sums of money involved. There are some compensation claims involved with all of this as well, aren’t there?

[From video]

Yeah, it’s disgusting. So, they went to federal court with our money, wasting our money once again, and claimed $25 billion in reparation for the [End video]

Sorry, pause. Was that billion with a B?

[From video]

B billion. So $25 million per person that identifies as big. So you don’t understand the pain and the suffering that these people have been through in their life to think that they deserve that. Like your grandfather might have died in the II World War. Is that is that not as bad? Like this is insane. This corporation has made every effort to game the system. They’ve done it publicly. They’ve not hit it and nobody wants to speak about it. The fact that every single one of those MPs was too scared to talk, it’s it really is concerning to and the people’s voice is what scares these people. [End video]

So, I want to make sure I’ve got this straight. The big people who say that they’re from uh one of the Stradbroke Islands are claiming land that is not in the Stradbroke Islands. They did it in secret. They called it a consent notice. They’re also saying that they want $25 million for each of the the people that identify as Big and Bull. And yet they could move to your town anytime they wanted. They could they could show up and and bid on houses or build new houses. None of them have chosen to do that. And the one that did left as soon as the determination was made. Have I missed anything there, Michael?

[From video]

No, this is exactly what they do. This is all clear as day. The whole thing is done with it’s verbal. It it’s verbal oral histories. That’s how they do this. So oral histories are great because you can really help shape them to suit your narrative. And the fact that the community doesn’t get a say. You’ve have to remember if you get on census and look up Toobeah, it says there is 0% Aboriginal people living in our community. So the Queensland Aboriginal Land Act, you know, the only people that get a say in that are other interested Aboriginal people. So how does this happen in Australia? Well, it can’t because the whole thing’s built on lies. [End video]

Michael, there’s a detail there that I think not everyone will will have picked up. If there’s zero Aboriginal people in your community and under the legislation, under the Queensland legislation, only other interested Aboriginal people have any influence, then that means that not a single member in your community has any standing to have an opinion under the legislation. Is that correct?

[From video]

That’s 100% correct. So now the future of our town, so our town’s in the middle of this, um, is ran by a corporation in Brisbane essentially, but that’s what it is. So they gave away a white community as a gift for reconciliation. We don’t even know how to describe what they’ve done and they think that we’re just going to cop this what we’re all going to start getting around with boomerangs and carrying on like the whole thing that they’ve done is crazy. Look, the welcome to country. People need to understand exactly how scary that is. You have just created a ritual thing that it didn’t exist and you’re using it to sell a message that benefits. It’s not even 3% of the population. Only 20% of Aboriginal people are represented by these corporations.

You’ve got this. It’s a mind virus. It’s infected the entire country and people need to have the pride to stand up. They use racism to stop people talking about this. I have received attacks like you would never believe in your life things that we’ve been called, racist. They’re business attack. They’ve used the police many times to intimidate us, coming out to our business, to our home. Uh solicitors paid for by the government, paid for by who knows where. Just constantly pounding, pounding, pounding. We’ve got the big and bull ranges now. So, this is where the scam gets great. That’s why they want to do this. They can create all these little projects. So, you know, caring for country. There’s a thousand different things they’re doing. Basically, it’s just paying a heap of useless people to go around and do nothing on our dollar. So, these big rangers are getting around our town now like intimidating. They’re driving around our town, filming us, making us realize that we’ve been conquered. Like, we we’re a conquered people. Well, are we conquered? We’re still standing. [End video]

Two more things, Michael. Firstly, you’ve actually had a number of other indigenous people come to you because you be had you’ve been forced to become something of an expert on these matters and they’ve actually come to you seeking advice. Uh they’re on your side in some cases. This isn’t exactly a case of white versus indigenous.

[From video]

No, not at all. And I’d be confident the majority of Aboriginal people in Australia support me because what a lot of them say to us is that they’re just stoked to see someone talking about it because no one will listen to them either. There are Aboriginal people in Australia that are in disadvantage. They’re 100% they are. If you look at very remote and remote Australia and you look at the $30 billion that’s spent a year, well, that’s $850,000 per Aboriginal family that lives in those areas. If you were serious about fixing this, you can fix it in a year. Instead, what they’re trying to do is give our country away. You do recall that they speak of something like up to 360 independent Aboriginal nations within Australia. That’s the end goal. That’s it. Why not just say that? Just stand up, prime minister, and let the country know that you guys all want to give it away. It’s crazy. [End video]

And this is coming soon to particularly Victoria, we see them very aggressively pursuing treaty there. But we’ve also seen in Western Australia, there were some things under native title legislation there that did for the moment get repealed uh and are not continuing, but we know that they’re going to come back. Bring us up to speed, Michael, because there’s a lot of people who think that what’s happening to you in Toobeah, those who even know about it, would be happening under federal native title legislation. This is actually happening under state legislation. And quite frankly, most Australian states now have this sort of legislation in place.

[From video]

It’s a beautiful thing. So, I’m pretty sure the Queensland Animal Land Act was actually in place before the Federal Native Title was in ’91. So, I think federal might have been 94. What it is, the Federal Native Title is the thing they use to sell it. It’s the nice thing. Oh, I’m not going to worry anyone. It’s going to be great. Pork eating set up there and everyone say that’s a beautiful thing and they’ve just gone on and on with it. Well, the individual state component of it the bit that’s the weapon. So that’s where they give the land away. That’s where they agree to everything. That’s where they circumvent the people.

One of the biggest. You’ve got to look at this. No, not everyone is into this for the same reason. So everyone’s found a way of how this benefits them. So if you’re in the renewable energy for example, if you’re in any kind of, you know, thing like that, local government or whatever, you need this because you need to have a conversation about the state land. So if you’re poles and wires, etc., you want to be able to talk about these communities. Well, how easy is it to narrow the conversation down to a handful of people?

That’s what they’re doing. But when you’re in TV, right, you’re going to speak about our future. You know more about this. We’re paying people from Stradbroke Island to come out here to do cultural heritage surveys. What is the point of that cultural heritage survey? My dad could do that as effectively like, oh wow. And people need to understand with Toobeah, Topher, that Toobeah is the precedent. This is what we’re saying and why this is so important.

We’ve won the war. We’ve we’ve got every admission. We we just need to drive it home. Like Australia needs to wake up and understand what we can achieve with two bit. We’re not here fighting just for our town. We’re fighting for a precedent because when you win this and unwind what they’ve done here in reverse, it is going to destroy the entire thing. I can guarantee you that is so ugly. [End video]

One last thing, Michael, before I let you go, just to illustrate how absurd these things are. You’re saying that people are having to be brought in from a great distance to do a cultural heritage survey on a place that they don’t personally know anything about. Tell me a little bit about this uh this borehole and how significant it has become.

[From video] The um pump hole? [End video]

Yeah.

[From video] Yeah. So that’s that’s what they actually call Turtle Bend. So it’s a historic thing in their uh in their um applications. So yeah, they were there from 1920 to 1964 and it’s man-made. It’s just bizarre. Every aspect of what they’ve done is just system gaming. [End video]

A man-made uh watering hole that was created since colonization, since uh Europeans settled in Australia, has become something of cultural significance uh to them. It is it’s quite extraordinary. Michael, I wish more strength to your arm. I’m going to put some contact details for you in the description of this video so that anyone that wants to can contact you. If I’m ever up that way, which to be honest, it’s not often. Uh but if I ever do find myself up that way, I’ll drop by the pub and have a pint with you. Thank you so much for coming on the Topher project.

[From video]

Topher, that’s awesome. We appreciate your help and to anyone watching, understand how serious this is and we need help cuz we can finish this right now. We have everything in place. We just need the troops. [End video]

Thanks, Michael.